Kommentare

Kommentar von 65384

Weaponskill gives both hit and reduces your chance to be parried/dodged, all items who increase weaponskill wil yust give expertise in 2.3 which wil only give reduced chance to be dodged/parried.

in all honesty, weaponskill, expertise > hit rating, because the last thing you want is a boss who can do alot of damage, parry your attacks because his swing timer wil be reseted instantly if he parries.

although this weapon can offer the most stamina of all tank weapons.

where it drops, it drops from Zull'jin.

Kommentar von Corbon

Please keep in mind that this 10 man instance loot, though it might only drop in time mode, since the item level is quite high. Or it does drop from Zul'Jin himself. Anyway, great upgrade over the Kara Chess sword.

Kommentar von Acku

So far for tanks, you've only had the choice between these weapons:
(Listed in order of progression)

King's Defender:

Zone: Karazhan

Dropped by: Dust Covered Chest

Sword
98 - 182 Damage
Speed 1.60
(87.5 damage per second)
182 Armor
+28 Stamina
Equip: Increases defense rating by 13
Equip: Improves hit rating by 17

Mallet of the Tides:

Zone: Serpentshrine Cavern
Dropped by: The Lurker Below

Mace
115 - 214 Damage
Speed 1.70
(96.8 damage per second)
+34 Stamina
Equip: Increases defense rating by 16
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 14

The Unbreakable Will:

Zone: Hyjal Summit
Dropped by: Anetheron

Sword
112 - 209 Damage
Speed 1.60
(100.3 damage per second)
308 Armor
+33 Stamina
Equip: Increases defense rating by 21

The Brutalizer:

Zone: Black Temple
Dropped by: Supremus

Axe
128 - 193 Damage
Speed 1.60
(100.3 damage per second)
+33 Stamina
Equip: Increases defense rating by 22
Equip: Increases your expertise rating by 21

If you choose Mallet of the Tides over this axe with a Thick Dawnstone or Facet of Eternity you would yield these statistical results:

Pros:
+1.6 DPS
-0.1 Attack Speed
+12 Hit Rating
+20 Parry Rating
+7 Expertise rating for orcs

Cons:
-8/4 Defense Rating

All in all, the best choice for all you orc tanks out there until you get into Black Temple.

Kommentar von Gorger

No, orcs and humans get 5 expertise for their axe/sword/mace racials. Not a 1% chance to crit; it was changed about a week ago.

Kommentar von 111191

socket with a Rigid Dawnstone to get 20 hit rating and 34 stamina, Not bad eh?
i prefer this over Mallet of the tides because as your raiders get better gear you need to worry about threat generation and this does great not to mention 20 parry rating and more DPS(don't really matter) then Mallet

but if you're having defense problems i'd go for Mallet of the Tides

Kommentar von 85708

From my point of view the only use for this axe would be for an enhancement shaman or Fury warrior. I know If I say Its for pvp I will get blamed hardcore because of the fact that using two weapons in PvP is completely wack. With the socket you are free to put what ever you want on it be it +strength +agility +hit rating. The thing that gets me confused is that it has parry raiting on it which in most cases is completely useless for any melee DPS due to the fact that they are not suppose to be getting hit by melee at all. As above posters have stated you can easily get a better tanking item off of many bosses that require either NO skill (chess) or little skill (lurker=easy mode).

Kommentar von 15011

Mallet of the Tides is way superior, the expertice outweights the socket and the parry rating.

Parry rating aint very good at all, you get a lot more dode per rating than you get parry per rating so you dont even get much avoidance from this either. Don't do theorycrafting but the armor on kings defender for example might be better than the parry rating on this axe. The dps on this still outweigts kings defender so this axe is still better than kings defender.

Kommentar von 120637

As far as pure mitigation and threat goes, this is better than the Mallet of the Tides. The parry (plus whatever you socket) will amount to more mitigation than the defense the Mallet provides you, and the higher dps plus the increased attack speed after a parry will more than make up for any expertise vs. hit disadvantage that may exist.

However, some might prefer the Mallet as a lot of the other ZA items in particular lack in defense, and the Mallet will help keep you about that 490 minimum.

Kommentar von Sapphidia

Whilst this is clearly the best "tank weapon" in the 10 man dungeons, squarely beating King's Defender in terms of DPS, stamina and general tank stats, Human warriors should note that Akil'zon's Talonblade ( https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=33214 ) is the superior threat option due to the expertise racial, as well as easier to obtain. The AP on that sword makes up for the dps difference, and 18 haste rating and 5 expertise are far better threat stats than 12 hit.

Whilst the amount of stamina that this axe can boast is quite impressive, for threat the haste and expertise (from racial) offered to human tanks from the talonblade make that sword a much better all-round option apart from on fights where you seriously need to stack stamina at the expense of everything else.

For all other warriors (bar orcs, for whom this axe is clearly the best option until the Brutaliser in BT), this Cleaver represents the best tank weapon you can find until the 25 mans, arguably a little better all-round than the mallet of the tides (although the mallet will still provide a slightly higher threat output due to the expertise on it).

Kommentar von 33153

I recently got both the Umbral Shiv and the Cleaver of the Unforgiving so i decided to do some testing. I didn't run any simulations i just went to the same type of mob and spammed devestate while in identical gear. I used a sample size of 100 devestates to measure the damage of normal hits with each weapon. For comparisons sake i had 678ap and was grinding on the Bonestripper vultures in hellfire.

Cleaver of the Unforgiving:
Devestate ranged from 91-331 with an average of 239

Umbral Shiv:
devestate ranged from 92-342 with an average of 243

So according to my test the umbral shiv actually hits a bit harder with devestate. This doesn't take into account that it is slower and therefore less HS spams, but strictly based on devestate damage, umbral shiv is a bit better.

Some limitations of this experiment include, limited sample size of 100 strikes, possible uneven streaks of mongoose procs, the amount of hits I got in after 5 sunders (which might result in skewed data).

In conclusion, I'll still use the cleaver with mongoose enchant for normal tanking, but i might throw executioner on the shiv and two solid stars of elune for a fun alternative tanking weapon (while still being good for dps otherwise). Of course, i would never ever take the umbral shiv from a rogue (i have a rogue myself and this is amazing), but if a warrior gets a chance to pick the shiv up and doesn't have a good tanking weapon I wouldn't pass it up.

Update:
The Sun Eater
devestate ranged from 74-299 with an average of 212

So based on this, if you have sun eater and you have a chance to get this for tanking I wouldn't pass it up.

***Assuming unlimited rage (which isn't always possible) and always activating HS (which isn't always possible), a 1.6 speed weapon will get 37.5 HS/minute and a 1.8 speed weapon would get ~33.3 HS/minute.
Since heroic strike is +196 threat (rank 10), this would result in 816 more threat/minute with a 1.6 speed weapon.

However, this is assuming perfect conditions, so I'd still take a harder hitting devestate.

Kommentar von 27054

Got that axe a month ago and i'm still thinking wich should use.

My two options are The Unbreakable Will and Cleaver of the Unforgiving.
Cleaver gives me a stamina, avoidance and hit boost, while Unbreakable gives some armor a high dps.

Assuming Brutaliser its not on my hands now, I think I will put a 15 stamina gem on Cleaver and use it for all day tanking, the 2dps loss is a meaningless difference and Cleaver gives overall stamina, hit and avoidance, and thats what matter.

So resuming IMHO thats the second better weapon until brutaliser, and its "easy" to obtain, so go for it

Kommentar von 142833

Imo this is the best tanking weapon in-game for warriors. (I dont have any clue of what drops in Sunwell Plateau, so I wont be taking any action in the items from there.)
I got this one, "Mallet of the Tides", and "The Unbreakable Will".
Looking at "The Unbreakable Will", it gives you 308 armor, 33 stamina, and 21 defense rating.
While the "Cleaver of the Unforgiving" gives you 12 hit rating, 20 parry rating (best avoidence for warriors), 31 stamina, and a socket where you can put whatever you want in. (Myself I go for parry rating.)

As I got more then enough Defense, the Cleaver wont take me below the defense cap (490), so its kind of useless with the defense on "The Unbreakable Will", (If I choose to use it.)
As the "Cleaver of the Unforgiving" gives more avoidence with 20 parry rating, 12 hit rating and a socket, the Cleaver is a better tanking weapon then "The Unbreakable Will".
(If you can stay above the defense cap of 490.)

Edit:
The Brutalizer. Drops in Black Temple, but still, doesnt have to be the best tanking weapon in game.
As I compered "The Unbreakable Will" and the "Cleaver of the Unforgiving" above, I also wish to say, that "The Brutalizer" is just as good as "The Unbreakable Will", its just a matter of what you need most, (Expertise or armor). As you know this, the "Cleaver of the Unforgiving" is also better then "The Brutalizer".
(As "The Brutalizer" and "The Unbreakable Will" is almoast the same item.)

Kommentar von seanbr

You may want to socket a Rigid Dawnstone in this since most warriors are not at their hit cap for special abilities. The added hit is invaluable when trying to up your TPS.

Also, stated previously that parry is the best avoidance for a warrior is actually very wrong. Parrying a swing causes a decreased swing time, which then of course gives the boss another chance to parry your swing, which of course can lead to a quicker boss swing. See the problem here? Dodge is still a better stat since you don't have to worry about causing more parries from the boss.

Kommentar von 126192

The lack of defense on this is pretty much a non-issue. Nearly all warriors at this gear level have defense shoved down their throat on all their gear, so they're sitting at over 520 defense without even trying. This is a great tanking weapon, and the presence of a socket means it's customizable to your needs.

Kommentar von Khalez

Why is this One-hand and not Main Hand? Can this resonably be used for dual wielding?

Kommentar von 160511

Human warrior, should i go with https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=33476 gems/enchants do not matter, or with https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=28749

Kommentar von 154643

just throw a Solid Empyrean Sapphire on it and you got the best stamina weapon in the game. awsome for the tanks trying to max out stamina

Kommentar von Allakhazam

I could list off other tanking weapons to show similarities in their make-up compared to this lovely new toy, but instead I just wanna say I'm glad blizz brought back a parry tanking weapon. I still get away with wearing my onyxia blood talisman and blow over 20k hp buffed. I'm also glad that the people I roll with know that this is a tanking weapon. hehe thank god.

Kommentar von Thottbot

So any1 wanna discuss this item? i say it a tank item with the stamina,parry and hit rate. but ofc other classes could use it if the tanks have better weapons maybe good as PvP weapon?

Kommentar von Thottbot

certainly it was created for PvE, but all that stam and parry rating would probably make it a decent pvp weapon... but if you ask my, the 1.6 attack speed would cripple your dmg... PvE axe imo...

Kommentar von Thottbot

warriors prefer slow offhands for dps after 2.3 btw cuz whirlwind changed

Kommentar von Thottbot

with no real dmg modifiers on the weapon itself id say not only is this a tanking weapon but it would be silly for any other class to use it. fast speed+stamina+parry+hit.....sounds like someone getting hit often,has a designated group of healers, and can use that speed to generate rage coupled with the plus hit to make the process even more efficient, oh yeah and has a talent for 1h weapons... I'm sure the dps gear at this level would leave the tank as the only person who would want this anyway.

Grats to whomever gets this it is a fine weapon. Yes you should gem it to your needs/strengths

Kommentar von Thottbot

nope. not for fury warriors, for tthree reasons

a) as previously mentioned, the whirlwind change - slow weapons have higher weapon damage
b) you want a slow main hand, and if you can, get an offhand the same speed (i currently DW two 2.6s) to abuse flurry...get four procs off of it instead of 3.
c) the unbridled wrath change from before pre-BC gave slower weapons a higher change to proc it. So there's no rage loss there.

Tank weapon...useless for anyone else

edit: HUNTERS? why would this be useful for hunters? Trollbane, Legacy, Axe of the Gronn Lords...are ALL better.

Kommentar von Thottbot

This is clearly a tanking weapon. On several points. First and foremost, as the gear increases, so does the need for defense on every piece of gear decreases. You only have to have it above 490 (recommend above 500 myself)making the parry very useful (which coincides with the Tier 4 bonus). Two, The hit rating carries on from King's Defender, Mallet of the Tides. Yellow socket to add to defense, hit rating, agility, & so on. Bonus giving out stamina. But most importanly the the 1.6 second swing speed.

Kommentar von Thottbot

wow thats a lotta stam on a one hander! i hope we can get one for our tank. ive never played a tank, so i dont kno, what kind of speed should a tanking weapon have?

Kommentar von Thottbot

High minimum damage and hit rating. Works for alot of classes.

On my shaman I would dual wield these with spell hit rating gems and spell damage enchants. I shock alot and it already has physical hit rating on it and a tonne of damage. The parry is kinda wasted on non tanks if you are raiding most of the time.

Obviously I would pass on this if the tank needed it since he/she is part of whats keeping me alive in the raid.

Kommentar von Thottbot

Ok so I've never played a shaman but I seriously doubt if you know how to play your class. To date I have never seen an enhancement shaman using any spell hit or spell dmg gems at all, likely for the reason that it sucks for them compared to str, hit, & crit gems. Also by using fast weapons you are considerably nerfing your dps. Stormstrike works on the attack range of your weapons, therefore slow as possible would produce the most dps. Also, although windfury will proc more on a fast weapon it will hit for less, and there is also a limit to the amount of windfury procs you can have in a short time so again you get less dps from a fast weapon. I might be going out on a limb here but I would almost believe that two lvl 70 rare weapons could generate more dps than dual-weilding these. Just my two cents though.

Definitely a good threat weapon for tanks in any case.

Imo this is a close competitor with The Brutalizer for the best tanking weapon in the game.

Kommentar von Thottbot

I'd love to have two of those for a survival hunter, that parry rating would help my counter-attack a ton in pvp, making all those fun loving warriors stop trying to rape me, even though they already fail, not to mention the hit rating and stamina, this weapon just yells into my face, survival hunter...as well as other classes don't get me wrong. It's more so the fact it's the only level 70 parry rating 1h weapon i've seen, and it just so happens to have everything i'd want on it, I can get crit from anything else really, i just want the parry and hit

Kommentar von Thottbot

i want two of these weapons, one to put executioner on and one to put mongoose on, i'm glad it's not unique

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