Kommentare

Kommentar von 33571

Great for any caster. I wonder if this and Shiffar's can proc @ the same time. Any info would be great.

Kommentar von zagi

Just some information :

30% spell crit rate = 15% chance to procc on a normal specc-cast. (6-7casts per procc)
20% spell crit rate = 10% chance to procc on a normal specc-cast. (10casts per procc)
10% spell crit rate = 5% chance to procc on a normal specc-cast. (20casts per procc)

Mages :
Frostbolt : 2.5sec cast = 24 casts per minute
Scorch : 1.5sec cast = 40casts per minute
Fireball : 3sec cast = 20casts per minute

Warlocks :
Searing Pain : 1.5sec cast = 40casts per minute.
Shadowbolt : 2.5sec cast = 24casts per minute.
Incinerate : 2.5sec cast = 24casts per minute.

Shamans :
Lightning Bolt : 2sec cast = 30casts per minute

Druids :
Wrath : 1.5sec cast = 40casts per minute

Kommentar von 35483

I just obtained this trinket from Fathom-lord Karathress, and so far I have analysed the following:

The 50% proc rate on crit is about correct. It has about a 30 second internal cooldown. This means it can't be on 100% of the time.

Seeing as I'm a Mage, I am using it as follows: I Scorch a raid boss untill it procs, then switch to the bigger nukes (Fireball), and after roughly counting the internal cooldown, I get the proc again with Scorch.

Kommentar von littlidabbi

https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=28418

Very poor itemization. 3 spell crit against 50 spell dmg and healing Procc.

Edit: Didnt notice the timer. 15 sec against 10 secs. Makes this better but in the end its still Normal Mode Arcatraz drop vs. Serpentshrine Cavern drop.

Edit2: According to comments on the Nexus-Horn it also lasts 15 secs. But as the tooltip says 10 secs it is likely that Blizzard will change it to "intended" duration, either that or fix the tooltip.

Kommentar von 37599

This trinket's effect has a hidden 45 second cooldown. Crits from Molten Armor can activate the trinket, and I tanked about 30 mobs in Ragefire Chasm to ensure I got multiple crits per second (30%+ crit rate at the time), and after repeated tests, it never, ever proc'd until 45 seconds after the previous proc.

Kommentar von Shivacode

Pretty sad they had to nerf a perfectly good trinket (Shiffar's) in order to make this look good.

Kommentar von Piaggio

Is it just me or is this thing as good/ a sidegrade from Shiffar's Nexus-Horn https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=28418 ? I mean it really doesn't make much sense considering the difference in difficulty between Arcatraz and SSC... Well, I guess I'm not the only one that loves BC itemization....

Kommentar von Splinter

For those of you who can't click the On Equip: link, here is what it does:

https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/spell=38348

It has a 20% chance to proc (according to WoWhead) and apparently does 190 damage or 175 healing (I can't confirm, it's merely what WoWHead has indicated it does.)

Kommentar von 25137

shafar nexus horn gives more spell dmg .. just like .4% less crit
what gives?

Kommentar von Liquids

So what is the proc rate on this thing? Some say 20%, some say 50%.
I seem to remember that the spelldmg was buffed from 175 to 190 at one point, but it seems the old comments have been deleted. Maybe the proc rate got changed there as well?

Can anyone elaborate on this? There's quite a big difference between 20% and 50%.

Kommentar von 73556

SEX-tant

lol.

Kommentar von 85139

Has anyone ever got this and Shiffar's Nexus Horn to proc at the same time, or are they on the same cooldown?
415 damage!!!

Kommentar von 36937

I'd like the opinion of those viewing this thread. Last night, one of these dropped and a debate arose over whether this was a viable paladin trinket.

40 Spell Crit Rating is no joke for a paladin, that's nearly 2%. This equip makes it better than any other trinket designed for a healer up to that point. (excluding VR's piston) Furthermore, most raiding paladins at this point seem to have ~23%-30% to crit on heals, so this proc would be used as often as possible within the confines of the hidden cooldown.

In my opinion, had this trinket been 190 HEALING ONLY, no one would argue that it was a poor trinket for a healer, it would probably be viewed as appropriate. I do understand that the damage bonus will scale better than the healing bonus.

Warlock: 1200 Spell Damage - Proc equals 15.8% bonus.
Paladin: 1800 Healing - Proc equals 10.6% bonus.

Regardless, it still seems as if a paladin could utilize this trinket and its proc just as well as any caster. Any thoughts supporting either side of the argument are appreciated. :)

Kommentar von Ravedruid

Any casting class that has a central talent that, to gain the benefit of the talent, requires a spell critical to occur has a legitimate claim to this and should be allowed to do so.

My ideal trinket for a holy paladin would be a +80ish healing passive with a chance on spell cast to increase spell critical rating by x amount for x amount of time.

This, however, is the trinket closest to that and is excellent for a Paladin. The main draw is the equip not the proc. This is not just extra healing it is pretty much mp/5 as well with illumination. A debate about class priority with this kind of drop is far from new though and I still remember quite clearly all of the differing opnions from in the day when it was the Azuresong Mageblade everyone had an opinion on.

A holy paladin has several options as far as trinkets and the only two that are as universally useful as this one are the Memento and the Essence of the Martyr.

The Ribbon of Sacrifice is nice but situational. With a boss that does a lot of light damage over a short period of time it can shine.

The Piston is fantastic since it gives Paladn's the ability to apply a HoT but since it is an equip and not triggered, the proc can be wasted if your heal brought someone back to full health and they are not likely to take any more damage before the HoT wears off

Considering the proc only, it is not the same thing as the Piston or Ribbon. Both of these two trinkets are pretty much fire and forget; you leave the benefit behind when you switch to a different target. Yes, the ribbon can be stacked on multiple targets but more often than not when I proc mine there is a good chance there is going to be at least 1 stack on someone who is not necessairly going to need to be healed again before the buff wears off. It is the same with the Piston.

So while granted it is not a triggered effect, the benifit of the proc stays at and with the healer and not the healer's target.

My paladin is geared and socketed to be a crit flash of light build and stacks crit over mp/5. With 30% crit, Illumination becomes the source of mana efficency with him. The addtional crit from this trinket (of which it has the highest of any trinket in the game) only adds to this.

In fact, I actually prefer that the equip is a proc and not a triggered boost.

Casting a 1.5 second spell, select your next target, watching and anticpating damage about to come into the raid, throwing a BoP on one target so you have enough time to switch to another player in more desperate need of a heal before going back, watching your own damage being taken and knowing when to shield, hitting the tank with holy light to get Light's Grace up before the next transition of x phase in x fight, activating Divine Illumination because you are going to be chain casting Holy Light for a time, during which you Holy Shock one target to keep them up, using Divine Favor with Flash of Light on another person after your next cast is through and all the while running to a different position, pausing only long enough to get off one heal before you got ot keep booking it towards where you need to be.

Is it any surprise that I won't even think to use my Ribbon sometimes? When the chicken's head comes off 5 cooldowns is plenty to remember as it is. If the tank is rocking steady the other healers will watch the incoming damage and heal reactively and I will I go to the player with the most lost health or the player with the higher importance in that given encounter and heal them instead and immediately reassesing the raid and selecting my next target before or right as the Flash of Light cast on my previous target is landing. Even if the sextant happened to proc it would not be wasted.

Kommentar von 93068

If it wasn't for that pesky cooldown, this would be pimpin for resto druid. With Improved Regrowth (+50% crit) it would be easy to trigger but with internal cooldown at 45 secs and 100% uptime it would only average out to 190*15/45 = +63.3~ healing :\

With that said it wouldn't be of much use to any healing class as even the LC revered trinket gives you more than that. Would be nice to see some more versatile gear...

Kommentar von 102596

I recentlly had a shadow priest need this over my warlock...The truth is that i dont know sp class that much but i know that they can only crit with mind blast/sw:Pain and i just cant stop thinking this item is a waste to a sp...your opinion?

Kommentar von Lohmarn

I just picked this up last night. Im an Elemental Shaman and I have been farming for the Shiffar's Nexus Horn forever and finally got this instead.

Kinda disappointed with it compared to the Nexus Horn.

Nexus Horn has 35 more spelldmg, but only lasts 10 sec. and also has 30 crit

So what makes this epic is 10 more crit and 5 more sec of lesser spell dmg. I dont get it, especially if they have the same cooldown duration.

But ultimately, this Trinket and Quagmirran's Eye is one of the best combo's in this game, no matter which caster you are.

Kommentar von 47954

Is the 45 sec cooldown shared with shiffar's horn or are they separate cooldowns?

Kommentar von 116147

For anyone who crits a lot this trinket plus https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=28785 would be sickies.

Kommentar von Kyeld

fyi, this effect stacks with trinket "on use" +damage effects and +damage on hit effects (from spellstrike, 2-piece warlock T4, etc).

Kommentar von 83139

is this trinket more worth for a fire mage than https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=33829? O.o

Kommentar von 33955

Looking at https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=28418 , is there really any huge benefit other then 10 spell crit rating? It seems like the decreased damage you get from the proc would not make up for the slight increase in crit that one would think you could get elsewhere. I've got the nexus horn when I'm spec'd demon/destruction and it has the same type proc rate I've read here for this trinket but was obviously much easier to come by.

Kommentar von Valon

Elemental Shamans, do your best rolling on this item. It really rocks I can tell you.

Kommentar von 93813

It's an awesome trinket for any caster class (except for Shadow Priests, since they don't really use crit). Warlocks, Mages, Ele Shammies, and Doomkins can all make use of this. Trying to say it's for one class over another is just stupid.

Kommentar von Nemph

Let us assume that we are casting many times one kind of critable spell with constant casting speed and with ~100% chance to hit.

With following parameters:

Crit Chance - 25%
Cast Time - 2.5 sec
Number of Iterations - 10000

We will have following results with this trinket:

Number of Crits - ~2500
Number of Procs - ~475
Total Buff Duration - ~7125 sec
Total Cast Time - 25000 sec

Average SPD Bonus from the "Chance on Crit" - ~54 SPD.

Tested on simulator created by me which simulates live casting rotations.
Results depend on parameters I ve described above, but even if we will pick up crit chance value and cast time of the spell from very wide range Resulting Average SPD Bonus will change with much lower difference from ~40 SPD to ~60 SPD.

Making conclusion, for all casters like Destrolocks, Mages, o.Onkins or Ele-Shamans this trinket will give approximately 50 SPD bonus only from it's "Chance On Crit" including its 45 sec cooldown and 20% proc on crit.

Kommentar von Allakhazam

it has a 50% chance on crit to proc
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/sp=38347

Kommentar von Allakhazam

Very nice =] especially as my crit % is at 20% at the moment.

Anyone know the cooldown on this?

Bloodmonk

Kommentar von Allakhazam

Hi.

50% proc chance may be true, but I wouldn't be surprized if this "chance" is based on the spell that crits, just like the damage bonuses: full (50%) on a spell with long casting time, and less (maybe 25%) for a spell with a short casting time, like scorch.

Kommentar von Allakhazam

"Coilfang resivoire" isn't that the place where all the instances are?

Is there really an instance called coilfang resivoire? If not which instance is this? And is it heroic?

Kommentar von Allakhazam

No longer 50%, its now 20%,
https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/sp=38347

Kommentar von Allakhazam

Thottbot shows this to have 190 spell damage on proc.

Kommentar von Allakhazam

Here's an once again an "epic" that get surpassed by blue loot that is far easier to get. Check this one out instead. Poster on the link confirms that tooltip is incorrct and that it is active 15 sec just like this "epic"

Kommentar von Allakhazam

where it drops , i have 40% crit chance and i am hungering for such thing ;)

Kommentar von Allakhazam

Fathom-Lord Karathress drop :)

Kommentar von Allakhazam

Well, 50% chance on crit sounds a lot and maybe u think "wow this thing will be up all the time". Nope, wrong!
I heard there is a hidden cooldown on these kind of trinkets for tripple the effects duration.
So this thing can only proc once every 45 seconds.
Well it's still nice, 175 spelldmg for 15 sec every minute and you dont have to activate it ;)

Edited, Apr 13th 2007 9:10am by arschmann

Kommentar von Allakhazam

Here's once again an "epic" that get surpassed by blue loot that is far easier to get. Check this one out instead. Poster on the link confirms that tooltip is incorrct and that it is active 15 sec just like this "epic"

Shiffars Nexushorn]Edited, Mar 12th 2007 12:17pm by Murvelgaist

Kommentar von Allakhazam

Anyone know if its proc chance is lowered by lower level ranks of spells? I just spammed rank 1 moonfire with this on and it procced once in maybe 20-30 crits.

Kommentar von Thottbot

Add this together with the lightning charge one from kara and you've got some top-notch trinkets.

Kommentar von Thottbot

Any idea on the existence and duration of the hidden cooldown on this one. Seems that with a 20% chance on shiffar's and a 50% chance on this, both would be primarily waiting on the cooldown and popping up shortly after. So i'd assume the cooldown is shorter.

Even still, 50% on spell crit means it'll pretty much pop as soon as the cooldown wears off, 15 seconds of +175 damage every 30 seconds is still pretty amazing, and way better than any use: with a 2min cooldown.

Kommentar von Thottbot

These "on-proc" items have a hidden cooldown of buff duration x 3.

What does this mean?

Sextant has a 15 second proc. If you get a proc, you can not trigger another proc until 15x3 = 45 seconds.

With a crit rate of 33% (for simplicity) on your fireball (3.3 second cast time with lag), you'll see two crits every 20 seconds (6 casts).

Add that to the hidden cooldown of 45 seconds, means you'll see a Sextant proc once everyone 65 seconds.

15 seconds of proc "up-time" every 65 seconds. Still pretty legit.

Kommentar von Thottbot

For a fire mage, this trinket is basicly:
+35 to crit and +42 Spell damage
which would make this about the best trinket in the game for a fire mage. (note: I do not say fire mages should get this, I am a fire mage and know the numbers on a fire mage)
This one trink would account for about 4.5% of a well gear fire mages damage (gear with 1000 SD and 33% crit)

Kommentar von Thottbot

This calculation is made for a spell with 2,5 sec spellcast and 33% crit.
You'll crit on every 3rd spell, and each crit has 20% chance to trigger the bonus, so on average you'll see the trigger on every 15th spell if there is no hidden cooldown. that's 15x2,5=37.5sec
Hidden cooldown is 15x3=45sec
Bonus lasts 15sec.
So average circle takes around 45+15+37.5=97.5 sec
During this period, bonus is active 15:97.5=15,38% of time
That gives 0.1538x190=29.22 additional spell dmg
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems a bit underpowered.

Kommentar von Thottbot

What you calculate is dps not +dmg.
Take fireball for example here.
A 3 sec cast, gaining 100% spell dmg bonus.
in 3 sec that would translate to 87.7dmg.

Kommentar von Thottbot

shame mindflay dont crit

Kommentar von Thottbot

let's say you have a chance of 30% to crit with your fireball (3 sec casttime):

the chance to proc is: 30% x 20% = 6%
that makes the trinket proc after 50 sec
the hidden cooldown is 45 sec
that means the trinket procs once every 95 sec

in the 15 sec of the proc you cast, let's say 4 fireballs (due to serverlag):
4 x 190 spelldamage = 760 damage
760 damage / 95 sec = 8 dps

with my items and talents that corresponds to about 13 spelldamage.

Kommentar von Thottbot

I have just got it with my SHaman ( GDMANYAK on Shadowsong EU realm) and it is the best possible trinket ever .. it procs every 45 secs ( kinda hidden CD) .. otherway it would be overpowered cuz i have 29 +11 + 3 = 43% crit chance with Lightnings in raid with full buffup .. and when it procs i have ~ 1350 speldamage for next 15 secs.
This trinket was my dream.

Kommentar von Thottbot

It's a good trinket for holy paladins too, since it gives +healing and a fair share of crit. Pew pew HPS!

Kommentar von Thottbot

lol... I typed in sex into the thott search and got this.

Kommentar von Thottbot

:( not redirected to this anymore when you type "sex". Some stupid dwarf is sharing the search now

edit: nvm they removed her from the site :O

Kommentar von Thottbot

The trinket is significantly better for an arcane spec where your chance to get a crit in one spell rotation is higher than that of a fire spec.

Kommentar von Thottbot

ugh that was a #$%^&*ed post on my part.... sorry guys

Kommentar von Thottbot

Do the two stack together?

can u use both trinkets and have them both proc'ing?

Kommentar von Thottbot

I have noticed a problem with the calculations many people have been doing regarding this trinket. You should be working with expected values when calculating the time for proc'ing.

Assuming that a 6% chance to proc on any given cast means the trinket WILL proc once every 50 seconds and therefore the time is 95 seconds between procs is WRONG.

The correct way to do this calculation is as follows:
Firstly assume a fire mage with about 30% crit and obviously that the trinket procs on 20% of crits. Also, comparing to my own raid buffed spell damage, fireballs hit for around 2500.

The chance for a proc on any given fireball cast would be 20%*30%= 6%

Our goal is to find how many fireballs we expect to shoot before getting a proc. Well, if each spell has a 6% chance to proc, each one also has a 94% chance NOT to proc. Thus the probability of seeing 1 spell without a proc is 94%, two spells without is .94^2 = .8836, or 88.36%, three spells without a proc is .94^3 = .8306 , or 83.06%, and so on. We carry on this sequence until we find .94^x = .5.

Why .5? Because when .94^x = .5, that means that there is a 50% chance that we have gotten it to proc and a 50% chance it hasn't, and thus this is where we would EXPECT to have a proc! (Think of it this way - before this point we expect not to have it proc, after we expect to have it had proc'd already, so precisely at that point is where we expect the actual proc to occur) Using logarithms, we can see that x = 11.2. This means that after 11.2 casts of fireball we expect a proc.

Well 11.2 casts translates into 11.2*3s = 33.6 seconds of casting. Also, we need to include the intrinsic cooldown, so add 45s to get 78.6s.

Of this 78.6 s, the trinket is up for 15, so 15/78.6 = .191, or having the trinket up 19.1% of the time. Thus, you have 190 spell damage 19.1% of the time, which equates to an overall spell damage gain of 36.26 spell damage due to the proc!

Using the 2500 spell damage fireball hit, we can also see what an equivalent spell damage increase would be due to the 40 crit rating on this trinket. Firstly, 40 crit rating converts to 40/22.08 = 1.81 crit %. As a fire mage, each crit gives you 2.1 times the damage of the base spell (assuming of course you have ignite talents). Thus when you crit you gain 1.1 times the spell damage as bonus damage. For a 2500 dmg spell, this means 2750 bonus damage 1.81% of the time, so 2750*.0181 = 49.82 bonus damage equivalent to the 40 crit rating!

That gives the trinket a total equivalent spell damage of 36.26+49.82 = 86.08 spell damage!

Compare this to the icon of the silver crescent, which has 43 (from straight spell dmg) + 25.83 (equiv spell dmg from use ability) = 68.83 equivalent spell damage

Kommentar von Thottbot

One thing that you need to take into account when trying to compare the effectiveness of spell crit to flat out spell damage is that you are in fact comparing two similar numbers. In the above example, you are finding out how much spell damage 40 spell crit will add to your fireball. The math is fine (assuming the target takes the full ignite damage). But in order to compare the two numbers, you need to then look at how 40 spell damage increases the damage of your fireballl then as well. If your a fire mage with empowered fireball, then the coefficient of spell damage is 1.15 making 40 spell damage add 46 Spell damage to your fireball. However, you can't stop here either. If you are "Fully Raid Buffed" then you likely have a full stack of scorches on the target. If your target is fully scorched, then your fire spells do an additional 15% damage. So again, 40 spell damage will increase the spell damage of your fireball by an additional 15% - (40*1.15*1.15). When you factor in other talents (playing with fire, possibly firepower, as well as other raid buffs), then you can effectively compare the two values to determine which one is better.

Looking at just the improved scorch talent and empowered fireball alone, 40 spell damage will add 52.9 damage to your fireball, Whereas 40 Spell crit will add 49.82 damage to a 2500 fireball hit (assuming again your ignite ticks the full duration, otherwise this value drops due to the decrease in the coefficient). This is the reason why everyone will tell you that spell damage always exceeds flat out spell crit on a 1:1 ratio for fire mages at least. As your spell damage increases though, spell crit does approach spell damage in effectiveness. However, this line is still not set in stone due to different builds, ignites, etc so there is no exact value yet. With spell crit you also have to take into account that the 1.8% could do nothing for your spell damage if it is the random victim to an unavoidable resist.

Kommentar von Thottbot

If you type in sex on Thottbot this is what you get. I am disappointed.

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Sextant der unsteten Strömung

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Anlegen: Erhöht die kritische Zaubertrefferwertung um 40.
Anlegen: Eure kritischen Zaubertreffer haben eine Chance, dass Euer Zauberschaden und Eure Heilung 15 sec lang um 190 erhöht wird. (Procchance: 20%, 45s Abklingzeit)

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